Sunday School 6/7/20

For your Sunday School lesson, I'm only going to visit two classrooms to listen in with only two guests: former Secretary of  State and Joint Chiefs chair General Colin Powell with Jake Tapper on CNN's State of the Union, and former Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice with Margaret Brennan on Face the Nation. 

In his exclusive conversation with Powell, Tapper started by asking him what he thought about all of the people speaking out against president Trump last week. Powell said he was "very happy" with what they were saying; we have a Constitution, he said, and "we have to follow that Constitution." 

And the president has drifted away from it. I'm so proud of what these generals and admirals have done and others have done. 

And, for those wondering why there was no Powell letter to go along with the others, he said he "made (his) point with respect to Trump's performance" back when he was running for office. Some of the stuff Trump said then "made it clear that I could not possibly vote for this individual.

The first thing that troubled me is the whole birthers movement. And birthers movement had to do with the fact that the president of the United States, President Obama, was a black man. That was part of it.

And then I was deeply troubled by the way in which he was going around insulting everybody, insulting Gold Star mothers, insulting John McCain, insulting immigrants -- and I'm the son of immigrants -- insulting anybody who dared to speak against him.

And that is dangerous for our democracy. It is dangerous for our country. And I think what we're seeing now, the most massive protest movement I have ever seen in my life, I think this suggests that the country is getting wise to this, and we're not going to put up with it anymore.

Powell said "You have to agree with" what General Mattis said about Trump not even pretending to try and unite us, and said he's been watching the folks speaking up, the ones who were junior officers when he left the military 25 years ago, he said. 

... I'm proud of what they're doing. I'm proud that they were willing to take the risk of speaking honesty and speaking truth to those who are not speaking the truth.

On his personal reaction to the protests against racial injustice and police brutality, Powell said the Republicans and the president "thought they were sort of immune," saying whatever they wanted to say, and worse - "even more troubling," in Powell's words - "Congress would just sit there and not in any way resist" what Trump was doing." And then, for the first time in the interview, Powell said "He lies. He lies about things, and he gets away with it, because people will not hold him accountable."

Powell reminded us there's the president, and there's Congress, and there's the Supreme Court, but

But, most of all, we have the people of the United States, the ones who vote, the ones who vote him in and the ones who vote him out. I couldn't vote for him in (2016), and I certainly cannot in any way support President Trump this year.

Powell, who's been socially and politically close with Papa Joe, the two having worked together for more than three decades, will be voting for Biden. He won't likely be making campaign appearances - campaigning is not his strong suit, he said, but he will be speaking for Biden.  And, he said, 

I think this year is going to be a different kind of year. We have done things that have offended just about everybody in the world. Our friends are distraught with us. We are down on NATO. We are cutting more troops out of Germany. We have done away with our contributions to the World Health Organization. We're not that happy with the United Nations.

And just about everywhere you go, you will find this kind of disdain for American foreign policy that is not in our interests. And we have to get on top of this. We have to start acting seriously.

Tapper asked why it's so important to Powell that Trump not be re-elected, particularly given so many independents and moderates are concerned the Dems are moving too far to the left. Powell said it's because Trump has not been effective.

He lies all the time. He began lying the day of inauguration, when we got into an argument about the size of the crowd that was there. People are writing books about his favorite thing of lying. And I don't think that's in our interest.

And this time around, he thinks the situation has gotten worse.  

Every American citizen has to sit down, think it through, and make a decision on their own. Don't listen to the -- everybody out there. Don't read every newspaper. Think it through. Use your common sense and say, 'is this good for my country,' before you say, 'this is good for me...'

So, what we have to do now is reach out to the whole people. Watch these demonstrations, watch these protests, and, rather than curse them, embrace them to see what it is we have to do to get out of the situation that we find ourselves in now.

We're America. We're Americans. We can do this. We have the ability to do it, and we ought to do it. Make America not just great, but strong and great for all Americans, not just a couple.

Brennan's conversation with Rice definitely had a different tone on some things. Generally, was about today's protests. and what's different from what she lived through as a child growing up in Alabama. One of her friends was among the four girls killed in the 16th Street Baptist Church bombing in Birmingham. She said that people are sick and tired of being sick and tired, and while that's leading people to think about the criminal justice institution, and the "justice of our institutions,"

more importantly, it's looking-- having us look in the mirror at questions about race. It's a very, very deep and abiding wound in an America that was born with a birth defect of slavery. And I'm really hoping that this time, we'll have really honest conversations, conversations that are not judgmental. Conversations that are deep but honest conversations about what we've been through and who we want to be.

She talked about her own history, how her great-great grandfather was her great-grandmother's slave owner.

That's a very hard truth. But it is the truth of the past. We now have to talk about how to move forward. And when I talk to people of different colors, particularly my white friends, my white colleagues, I don't want it to be in the language of recrimination. I want to be in the language of how do we move forward. I think we each have an individual responsibility. It's a collective responsibility, yes, but it's an individual responsibility to ask what am I going to do specifically? What am I going to do to help heal these wounds and to move our country forward? Because race is still very much a factor in everyday life in America.

Rice looks to education as "a way to break through the barriers of prejudice," something that

... gives people a fighting chance. If you look at this COVID-19 crisis, it has exposed even deeper inequalities in our society. Just imagine being a child who's trying to learn-- to learn at home and the parents don't speak English, the parents don't have an educational background of their own. And contrast that with the kid whose parents are well educated and who can read to them. We've got a lot of work to do around inequality.

And, Brennan noted, the pandemic "seems to be widening the existing divide" economically, and she wondered about policy solutions, and where Rice saw those coming from. One thing she mentioned was equal access to reliable internet, to broadband, and that includes people in rural areas or in "schools that are not well-endowed." Having that, in the time of coronavirus and in the future, can be the difference between employment and unemployment, she said.

So, what would Rice tell the president, if she were one of his advisors? She wants him to "first and foremost speak in the language of unity, the language of empathy." Everyone doesn't agree with the president, this one or any other, but the president has to speak to every American, not just the ones who agree with him. 

I've heard the President talk about the resilience of Americans. I'd love to hear more of that. Twitter and tweeting are-- are not great ways for complex thoughts, for complex messages. When the President speaks it-- it needs to be from a place of-- of thoughtfulness, from a place of having really honed the message so that it reaches all Americans. And, by the way, not just the President. I would love to hear this from our leaders in Congress on both sides of the aisle. I would love to hear it from mayors and from governors and from others. Leaders at this particular point need to do everything that they can to overcome, not intensify our divisions.

And, Rice said, the president needs to know the history of what he says before he tweets it, referencing his use of the 'shooting and looting' comment as a "deep wound."

People look to the Oval Office as we've looked to the Oval Office throughout our history for-- for messages, for signals. And, as I said, the President has used some language that I am really very, very much admire like the resilience of the American people. Just be careful about those messages. I am not advising the President, but if I were, I would say let's put tweeting aside for a little bit and-- and talk to us have a conversation with us. And I think we need that. And I think he can do it.

What does Rice think about General Mattis and his comments about Trump being a divider not a uniter? She's got "enormous respect" for him, he's a "man of great integrity... a patriot... my friend" and he said something that he needed to say. 

What I want to speak to is the future and what we do here over the next several months. We are having protests that need to be peaceful, but we've always moved ahead in part by protest. There's no excuse-- excuse for the criminality and for the looting. That's not what-- who we are and what we are.

And, she's grateful that people are protesting, 

... as somebody who grew up in Birmingham, Alabama, Jim Crow Alabama, when if a black man was shot by a policeman, it wouldn't have even been a footnote in the newspaper, I'm really grateful to people who are going out now and saying, no, that is not acceptable. I'm grateful to those people who are thinking about how to support good police, who are thinking about how to support all of those people who put their lives on the line every day to protect us, but also to say to those who do not have our best interests at heart, who don't undertake that obligation to protect and defend without regard to color, enough. We won't put up with that either.

 And so this is a time for every American to speak to our unity but to also be very cognizant of how we describe our differences, how we address our differences, and especially how we address one another with empathy.

Brennan asked if there was any circumstance these days where it would be acceptable to invoke the Insurrection Act and send active-duty military into American cities.  She said she'd "absolutely advise against it," noting that the Founding Fathers were "very smart" and focused on the citizen soldier - which is the National Guard, not the military.

They come from these communities. They are of these communities. They are trained in everything from dealing with natural disasters to dealing with issues like crowd control. And when the local police can't handle it, the National Guard is the right-- the right answer. Our military isn't trained to do this. Our military is trained for the battlefield. And this isn't a battlefield in that sense.

They also talked about foreign countries using the protests in state propaganda, and wondered if the racial divide in America is a national security threat.  She blasted China, Russia and Iran for Tiananmen Square, the invasion of Crimea, and the Green Revolution, respectively. And she had a message for our allies, as well. 

.. And I would even say to our friends abroad, in places like Europe, where I'm seeing demonstrations in support of what is happening here, thank you for your support, but please look in the mirror. Please ask yourself, in countries in Europe and countries all across the world, what are you doing about racial and ethnic in-- inequality in your own circumstances? America has gotten better because we have been willing to confront our problems. And we're going to confront our problems again. We're confronting them now. And I think we will move forward this time. 

To be fair, our allies are protesting what's happening in their own countries, not just what's happening in America. 

The final question? Rice did not support Trump in 2016, will she support him this time? She was not as open on this as Powell; she said "you'll be the first to know when I want to speak about American politics." So, basically, she's not saying, at least not right now. Rather, 

what I want to speak to is my fellow Americans and to understand the deep divisions that we have, to understand what it is to be black. You asked about the military earlier. Let's remember, too, that our people in uniform also come from different backgrounds. They come from different races. They are united in a common cause. But this is hard for them, too. And I know that their commanders are aware of the painful conversations that need to be -- need to take place even within our military. But one great thing is when we unite for a common cause, as they often do, it helps us to overcome those differences.

Two former top diplomats, one a retired general, the other a child of the Jim Crow south. One firmly anti-Trump, the other certainly more positive and complimentary, for sure, about the president, even though she didn't support him last time out, and isn't ready to publicly comment on her decision this time.  Both were interesting interviews, for sure. 

Your Extra Credit will feature some of those former 'junior officers' Powell spoke about, and if there's room, we'll hear from some other classroom visitors. 

See you around the virtual campus, clean hands and socially distanced clear heads at all times.