Sunday School 6/14/20

For Sunday School today, I dropped in on a couple of classrooms: Meet the Press (NBC), for Chuck Todd's interview with Senator Tim Scott (R-SC), and Face the Nation (CBS), to listen in on Margaret Brennan's chat with Seattle Police Chief Carmen Best, which is where we'll start, given the intense interest in what's happening in the Capital Hill area of that city, where protesters or anarchists have taken over and kicked the police out of a precinct house. 

Brennan welcomed Chief Best and started the interview with a discussion about how policing is being done in Seattle. Best, who is black, said she thinks "all the time" about how they can improve, and what they're experiencing on the job every day. She continued

I absolutely believe in accountability. But I think it's- we've moved away from using the word reform. We were under a consent decree and the Seattle Police Department for almost a decade. We followed every rule and everything that was asked of us to do, yet here we are--

The Justice Department, with the consent decree, "laid out a road map and a game plan for (the police) to follow" while a federal monitor reviewed things. But Best said what she believes, after attending one of the Black Lives Matter protests, and

looking at the 60,000 people that were there, signs saying, you know, defund the police, stop police brutality, you know, no qualified immunity. And there were thousands of people carrying those particular signs. And I just realized it was a moment, an epiphany, that this is a pivotal moment in history. We are going to move in a different direction and policing will never be the same as it was before...

And, Best noted, some of this is best left as conversation for "the politicians and the judicial people" to have, but

But I do believe that the considerations of the public need to be infused in whatever that outcome is.

Brennan introduced a discussion about the CHAZ, noting that "Republican lawmakers... they're saying it's like a war zone, that warlords are running rampant. The president himself has said domestic terrorists have taken it over." She asked Best point-blank,  "What is happening in this so-called Capital Hill Autonomous Zone?"

Best's answer, after noting the name change to CHOP, was that there are different objectives and different agendas and that

One of our real challenges there is trying to determine who is a leader or an influencer. And that seems to change daily. I know that many of our city officials and others are trying to establish some sort of communication with someone who can give us some direction about what the intent is and how we might move forward.

Brennan mentioned reports that "negotiations were underway with Black Lives Matter" and that they were looking for police funding to be cut before they'd hand back control of the area; she wondered how long it will last.  Best said she wished she had the answer, but wants things to move forward "as quickly and efficiently as possible, adding

But my concern as a police chief, besides that I want to be back in our precinct doing the work, is that we don't want... anyone there to be harmed. We don't want this to be something that devolves into a force situation. So we're really trying to take a methodical, practical approach to reach a resolution where everyone gets out of here safely.

And she said "for the time being" she believes it's peaceful.

Brennan shifted to what happened in Atlanta with the shooting of Rayshard Brooks. Noting that one of the officers was fired and the police chief has resigned, Brennan wondered, "...what is it like to be a police chief right now? Do you feel there is just zero room for any kind of error? And have you changed the way you're doing your job?"

Best talked about not being able to use pepper spray or flash-bangs or CS gas in Seattle, which changes some things. And she referred to the protests again.

...I saw many people carrying signs about defunding the police, ending police brutality and looking at resolving the qualified immunity issue. So I know standing there watching and listening that we're going to change in policing. We have to. It has to be a movement that involves everybody. And we need to reimagine and re figure out, if you will, how we're going to move forward as a country and as an organization to make things better for everybody.

 It's "incredibly difficult', but "with every challenge, there's opportunity. There's opportunity to move forward and bring people together and get positive change. I absolutely believe that." And, she said,

So some stressful situations are not going to deviate me or my organization from leading the way in trying to make things better for all of us.

Stress is not a reason for walking away - something that we all should remember. 

South Carolina's Tim Scott, who's one of only three blacks in the senate - and the only black Republican - was tapped to lead the Republican legislative efforts on police reform. The first question from Chuck Todd? What was his reaction to what happened in Atlanta, particularly with how fast things were moving. 

Scott said he thought the mayor deciding to fire the officer and having the chief resign was to "perhaps quell the response from the community" and said that the video was "disturbing to watch" but that he was

not sure it was as clear as what we've seen around the country on some of the other issues that have driven us to the point where we're actually having a serious conversation around police reform.

He described the Atlanta situation as 'an outlier.'

Todd wondered if part of police reform should include "a federal standard on use of force" and when it is or isn't required. Scott suggested (and I agree with him) that "it's really difficult to establish a codified and law standard" for that; there are "millions of scenarios" involved. That's why they've been looking for best practices, so they can

...provide that clarity and guidance for those departments who may need to have a better, better perspective on use of force. So we're getting at it. But I'm not sure we're ever going to codify in law a use of force standard.

Chuck wondered what a best practice would look like. Scott said that they're trying to get current officers, former officers, and citizens together to talk about what effective policies and better outcomes look like in the split second situations when it's determined whether to use force. Chokeholds, he said, is more clear: it's "a policy whose time has come and gone."

Todd wondered what has momentum at the federal level, pointing to a national registry of police misconduct, ending no-knock warrants, and reducing qualified immunity for police officers - all on the Dem's wish list.. Scott said they want to understand more about no-knock warrants, when they're used, against whom, demographics, and so on. All they know is the horrible case of Breonna Taylor.

So I want to take the Breonna Taylor case and have an act that requires more data to be provided so that we can actually come out with policies that are consistent with the best use of no-knocks or the elimination of no-knocks... I know that the House bill says let's just eliminate it for drug cases. But we have no information that supports that that is the best way to go.

He wants to have the discussion, and that'll be on the table if they get to the negotiation part, as will chokeholds and even a national registry. He thinks some of the approaches are very similar yet different at the same time, but he thinks there'll be a bill, and a law. Qualified immunity is a different issue.

I would be interested in decertification of officers, the left says that's a union issue that's kind of hard to get at. Qualified immunity on the right, that's an issue that most Republicans don't like at all, to include myself. So the question is, is there a path forward that we take a look at the necessity of eliminating bad behavior within our law enforcement community?... I think we'll find that. I'm not sure that it's qualified immunity.

It might not be decertification, either, he said, but "if we're that close on making progress, I hope we don't let partisanship get in the way."

Chuck asked about the president, and whether he can play a role in getting a bill across the finish line, "without, sort of, maybe, apologizing for some of his views on race over the years?" Scott thinks yes, saying Trump "is engaging now in a way that is constructive and helpful." And, Scott said, Trump's executive order, coming on Tuesday he thinks,

really does reference a national database strengthening and national database on police misconduct, from my understanding. It also talks about the importance of co-responders from a mental health perspective that both law enforcement and communities like that approach. So I think he's weighing in at the right time in a constructive manner.

And he pointed to Trump's West Point commencement address, noting that

His approach yesterday... is what we'd like to see a whole lot more of because it was constructive, it is important that all three levers of government work together to solve what is, in fact, the original sin of this country. If we do that, I think the American people will celebrate, neither party, but the fact that we worked together as one country.

Todd wondered if Juneteenth was a national holiday, if the scheduling issue with Trump's rally wouldn't have happened.

I do think the more information we have, obviously if there was a national holiday, Chuck, you're hitting the nail on the head, we would all know about Juneteenth. We'd all have an opportunity to celebrate it. And frankly, there would be fewer mistakes on that day.

He said that one of the things he wants to do in the Republican legislation was providing resources similar to how "it's done at the Holocaust Museum," for the African American Museum for celebrating Juneteenth, and commemorating the Tulsa race riot (which was really a massacre).

We think the more education, the information that we provide the better people behave in all corridors of this nation. but specifically within the law enforcement community. So we have an opportunity to do that in our legislation, we provide some resources for that historical perspective and understanding that I think will bring us closer together.

And will there be a national holiday, Todd asked?

Well, listen, I'm open to it. I've been talking to some of my friends throughout the country, including at the White House. I think that's a brilliant idea. The conservatives in the House seem to be interested in that. So you never know what may happen.

You never know what might happen, when conservatives "seem to be interested" in adding another federal holiday...

See you around the virtual campus, in accordance with the reopening guidelines where you are. And tune in tomorrow for Extra Credit, where I'll feature two Ben Carson interviews. I'm looking forward to seeing how the classroom dictates the questions - and the answers.