Point/Counterpoint: Syrian Refugees

Below are a number of comments made by various presidential candidates regarding Syrian refugees. Not surprisingly, there are a wide range of opinions, which allows me to classify this as a Point/Counterpoint post.

Can you match the contender with the statement? Answers at the end of the post - no cheating!

Here we go:

(a) We have welcomed refugees, the tired, huddled masses for centuries, that's been the history of the United States. We should continue to do so. We have to continue to be vigilant to make sure those coming are not affiliated with the terrorists, but we can do that. 

(b) I support the call from humanitarian and refugee organizations for the United States to accept at least 65,000 Syrian refugees next year. If Germany - a country with one-fourth our population - can accept 800,000 refugees this year, certainly we - the nation of immigrants and refugees - can do more. 

(c) You have the refugee organizations that are overwhelmed; I think it's in our national security interests to try and get ahead of this problem. My goal is to make sure they don't have to flee their country... They're not coming here because they want to. People leaving Syria are fleeing tyranny, not to get jobs. 

(d) We're facing the worst refugee crisis since the end of World War II and I think the United States has to do more I would like to see us move from what is a good start with 10,000 to 65,000 and begin immediately to put into place the mechanisms for vetting the people that we would take in.  

(e) I'd sit down with our allies and figure out how we can help, because America is a compassionate country. We saw the image of that four-year-old little boy drowned in Syria (sic) and we can't have those kinds of things. I can't come up with an exact number. You'd have to sit with our allies and work together.

(f) We should take our fair share. We are good people. I don't think the average American has any idea what it's like to live in the Middle East right now. I don't see how you can lead the free world and turn your back on people who are seeking it... 

(g) I'm putting the people on notice that are coming here from Syria as part of this mass migration, that if I win, they're going back. They're going back. 

(h) Are they really escaping tyranny, are they escaping poverty, or are they really just coming because we've got cable TV? I don't mean to be trite, I'm just saying we don't know. 

(i) Send them back to a hell hole? That's not the proper policy for the United States and it's certainly not an exhibition of leadership. 

(j) I think it's impossible to give a proper number until we understand the dimensions of the problem. People are leaving Iraq, they're leaving Syria, with just the clothes on their backs. The world has got to respond. The United States should be part of the response. 

(k) We've always been a country that's been willing to accept people who have been displaced, and I would be open to that if it can be done in a way that allows us to ensure that among them are not...people who were, you know, part of a terrorist organization that are using this crisis. 

(l) We are a welcoming nation, and we have accepted a lot of refugees, and I think we will continue to to do. But we also can't accept the whole world, so there are some limits. 

(m) The United States, I believe, has done it's fair share in terms of humanitarian aid...I think the United States honestly, sadly, cannot relax our entrance criteria. We are having to be very careful about who we let enter this country from these war-torn countries to be sure terrorists are not coming.  

How'd you do? Were you able to tell then apart?

Kudos, I think, to those who have maintained consistency in their positions and who have not jumped on the bandwagon simply to stay in the game. For those who previously said one thing and are now, post-Paris, saying something else, do you think they remember where they used to stand on this only a couple of months ago?

And, perhaps more importantly, do you think any reporters are going to call them on it where they're being inconsistent?


(a)  Ted Cruz  (b) Martin O'Malley (c) Lindsey Graham (d) Hillary Clinton (e) Chris Christie (f) Graham (g) Donald Trump (h) Mike Huckabee (i) Jeb! Bush (j) Bernie Sanders (k) Marco Rubio (l) Rand Paul (m) Carly Fiorina

Point/Counterpoint: Christians and Muslims

Words of wisdom, or something: from two who want to lead the greatest democracy in the history of the world, and from one who plays a game for a living.

Jeb Bush notes that, while we should be making it safe for people to stay in Syria and not have to leave the country and flood Europe and the US, and we need to secure our borders,

original photo Jeb!2016

There are a lot of Christians in Syria that have no place now. They'll be either executed or imprisoned, either by Assad or ISIS. And I think we should have - we should focus our efforts as it relates to the Christians that are being slaughtered. 

Donald Trump, meanwhile, echoed comments that folks such as Britain's PM David Cameron had made earlier this year, and that some in the French government have made more recently, regarding closing some mosques:

I would hate to do it but it's something you're going to have to strongly consider. Some of the absolute hatred is coming from those areas. You're going to have to watch and study the mosques because a lot of talking is going on at the mosques.

Not surprisingly, there were no calls from His Hairness, or the rest of the Republican candidates, to shut down Christian churches when there was so much vitriol and hate spread from the pulpits about marriage equality or contraception. Or for calls to shut down Catholic churches during the time of the terrorist pedophile priests.

Anyway -- moving on.

After a jerk yelled "Muslims suck!" during a moment of silence at the start of the Green Bay Packers - Detroit Lions football game on Sunday, Packers QB Aaron Rodgers minced no words:

I must admit I was very disappointed with whoever the fan was who made the comment. I thought it was really inappropriate during the moment of silence. It's that kind of prejudicial ideology that I think puts us in the position that we're in today as a world.

Lead from where you are, they say. One of these three did exactly that.

Point/Counterpoint: The Comic Book Debate

Not unexpectedly, reaction to the CNBC GOP debate was fast and furious. Or maybe, it was furious and fast.

During the debate, the candidates themselves were quick to pounce on the moderators; a few of those reactions I included in yesterday's post, but I did save a couple.

The first is from Ted Cruz:

You know, let me say something at the outset. The questions that have been asked so far in this debate illustrate why the American people don't trust the media. This is not a cage match. And, you look at the questions - "Donald Trump, are you a comic book villain?" "Ben Carson, can you do math?" "John Kasich, will you insult two people over here?" "Marco Rubio, why don't you resign?" "Jeb! Bush why have your numbers fallen?" How about talking about the substantive issues the people care about? 

And this, from Chris Christie:

Carl, are we really talking about getting government involved in fantasy football?  We have -- wait a second -- we have $19 trillion in debt. We have people out of work. We have ISIS and al Qaeda attacking us.  And we're talking about fantasy football  Can we stop?

The official response from the party came via a letter from RNC head Reince Priebus to Andrew Lack head of NBC, advising

I write to inform you that pending further discussion between the Republican National Committee (RNC) and our presidential campaigns, we are suspending the partnership with NBC News for the Republican primary debate at the University of Houston on February 26, 2016...

CNBC billed the debate as one that would focus on "the key issues that matter to all voters - job growth, taxes, technology, retirement and the health of our national economy." That was not the case. Before the debate, the candidates were promised an opening question on economic or financial matters. That was not the case. Candidates were promised that speaking time would be carefully monitored to ensure fairness. That was not the case.  Questions were inaccurate or downright offensive...

What took place Wednesday night was not an attempt to give the American people a greater understanding of our candidates' policies and ideas... 

Put that in your pipe and smoke it, The Networks of NBC.

Elsewhere, the view was a little different.

John Harwood, he of the "comic book version" question to Trump, defended the way he asked the question in an appearance on On Point, a radio show from WBUR and NPR.  When asked by host Tom Ashbrook if he went "a bridge too far" with the question, here was his response (you can listen to the audio here):

No. Look, there is nobody - including the candidates on that stage - the day before John Kasich had given a speech and he said "we've got somebody who's promising to send 10 or 11 million people out of the country. That's just crazy. That is fantasy."  There is no one on that stage who actually believes that you can send those 11 million people out of the country. There is no economist who believes that you can cut taxes $10T without increasing the deficit. It is simply a set of discussions that is not connected to the real world we live in. And I felt and feel at this moment that it's appropriate to pose that to Donald Trump in that way. 

CNBC's Brian Steel, VP of communications, allowed as how

People who want to be president of the United States should be able to answer tough questions. 

Writing in the Boston Globe, columnist Jeff Jacoby noted, in reference to Cruz's "brutal takedown," that

It was a good night for Cruz and Rubio; a bad night for Bush. But the biggest loser in Boulder wasn't a candidate. It was the media.

And here's Helaine Olen, author of a couple of books on personal finance who also writes for Slate; she also arrived at the conclusion that CNBC was the biggest loser.

The main moderators  (Harwood, Quick, Quintanilla) appeared to be in a different time zone from Jim Cramer and Rick Santelli, who pitched in with a few questions. Although, come to think of it, Quintanilla may have been in a different time zone from everyone.. Were there tough questions? Sure there were more than a few... But mostly, CNBC's debate was a mess.

Olen's take on it was a bit different - she noted that regular viewers would have seen a "familiar" mess which is not exactly a confidence builder.  She also recollected Quintanilla has had other less than shining moments, such as this one:

...his performance managed to remind me almost at once that his finest moment as a journalist was when he got an interview with soon-to-be-indicted $8B Ponzi schemer Allen Stanford and asked him "Is it fun being a billionaire?"

Hmm.  Now I have to wonder, were my expectations too high to begin with?

Back to Priebus, before we go. His letter to NBC News also noted that

The RNC's sole role in the primary debate process is to ensure that our candidates are given a full and fair opportunity to lay our their vision for America's future. We simply cannot continue with NBC without full consultation with our campaigns.

That  'consultation' is going to occur tonight, with a high-powered Republican attorney facilitating things, according to the New York Times.

The article points out that there are different opinions from the camps on how to proceed, illustrating again that while it's relatively easy to rally against the media as a common enemy, it may prove harder to change something that - good, bad, or indifferent - benefits some of the candidates just as much as it marginalizes others.

Stay tuned.

Point/Counterpoint: Outside-the-District Contributions

Ellen M. Blalock/The Post-Standard photo

So, at a debate yesterday, all three candidates for Congress in NY-24 were present, a departure from some others where only Ann Marie Buerkle, the incumbent Republican and Ursula Rozum, the long-shot Green Party designate were in attendance.  Dan Maffei, the Dem who lost last time by about as many votes as I have bottles of wine, appeared on stage with them.

(It's off-point, but how uncomfortable does he look in this photo?)

Among the topics discussed was the huge influx of outside money in this race, something that I've long opposed - candidates should not be able to accept outside money, whether from two-legged people or those other 'people' most of us outside the US Supreme Court refer to as businesses, PACs, charitable organizations, and the like.  And yes, I include unions in that last category too.

We're in the middle of a Congressional race with spending reaching the $8 million level, $4.7 million from outside the district, according to published reports.  One reason we're being flooded may be that, according to The Fix, a political blog, this race is the 11th most likely to flip , out of 60 House races the blog identifies as being 'most important' to which party ends up with control.

So when the topic of outside money flooding the district came up, the reported responses were a riot. Maffei, for instance, indicated not to worry, the money has 'no influence' on him, noting:

I am answerable to one group of people, and it's the voters of this district... I do think it's deplorable the amount of money that has come into politics... We've got to get the money out of politics.

Buerkle, for her part, defended the money she's received from 'like-minded organizations she supports', and offered this in reference to those who have supported her:

It's free speech.

And this, regarding outside money for Maffei:

I think the bigger concern should be Michael Bloomberg and the investment he is making in this race.

And finally, this, in response to the question of how the money might influence her:

I think my record speaks for itself.

Ursula Rozum does not accept outside money -- none of the Green Party candidates do.  Rozum recently donated scam contributions from Buerkle supporters to charity. 

I can't picture any of the major party candidates doing that -- if they did, they'd no longer be major party candidates.  But can you imagine the impact these millions of dollars could have in the hands of people focused on doing good work?

Point/Counterpoint: Voter ID Laws

Dateline, the cloud.  A Facebook conversation about Voter ID laws:

If you are poor and apply for welfare you have to have ID, so why can't you afford to get ID to vote?? If you are too poor or lazy to get ID to vote then maybe you shouldn't vote... just saying. 

The big question is, why is this just an issue this election, why was it not an issue back in the day of Nixon, Reagan, Carter, Clinton, Bush I, Bush II? Did voter fraud just fall off the turnip truck when Obama got elected? Or is it really, like the politician from Pennsylvania said, we pass Voter ID and we get Romney elected?  

It sounds like Obama can't get re-elected unless he has all these people that can't prove who they are to vote for him.

Ha ha - sure sounds like Romney can't get elected without these new laws keeping people from voting... 

Bottom line should be that if you want to vote and be counted get off your lazy ass and get an ID, no reason to not be able to, none what so ever!!!!

Boy,  I'm sure glad that the Republican National Convention is over and we're not going to be divisive anymore. 

Point/Counterpoint: Two Tokes

Dateline The Netherlands:  Police and municipalities in Rotterdam and The Hague this week mailed 30,000 scratch and sniff cards that give off the pungent odor of cannabis plants to help people identify and report marijuana plantations, according to a story in the Washington Post. The campaign, sponsored in part by energy company Stedin, aims to weed out (pun intended) and put a stop to illegal pot plantations, in part because growers sometimes steal the power necessary to keep the lights on.   

Dateline Arizona:  Voters barely approved a medical marijuana initiative this month; the margin of victory was about 4300 votes out of 1.6 million cast. "Voters in Arizona have sided with science and compassion while dealing yet another blow to our nation's cruel and irrational prohibition on marijuana," said Rob Kampia, Marijuana Policy Project executive director. Some 120 clinics could be established under the law; for folks living more than 25 miles from a clinic, home grown’s alright for them.

Point/Counterpoint: Two Conservatives

Dateline New York, NY. Rick Lazio, the Republican Party choice for Governor of New York, lost the primary two weeks ago to Carl Paladino, a western NY businessman. Lazio remained on the ballot on the Conservative line, but today ended his candidacy.  "While my heart beckons me forward, my head tells me my continued presence on the Conservative line would simply lead to the election of Andrew Cuomo," he said, referring to Paladino’s Democratic opponent. 

Dateline Watertown, NY. Doug Hoffman, who two years ago lost in an ugly three-way election for NY’s 23rd district, lost the Republican primary to Matt Doheny. Hoffman, also on the Conservative line, vowed to stay in the race, even though last time around, when he made the same choice, the Republicans lost a seat they had held since the 1800’s. "I have spoken with family, friends, supporters and staff as I have weighed my next step. So today, with new resolve and a strong commitment to conservative principles, I rededicate myself to this race and announce that I will actively campaign for Congress as the nominee of the Conservative Party." 

In response, a Tea Party leader told members not to vote for Hoffman, saying “Doug Hoffman doesn’t have an ice cube’s chance in hell of winning this election. A vote for him is a vote for Bill Owens.’’

Point/Counterpoint: Two Congregations

Dateline Syracuse NY: Trinity Assembly of God, located in one of Syracuse’s northern suburbs, donated their collections for two weeks to purchase cleats for the players on an inner-city football team. Members of the congregation, some of whom struggle themselves to make ends meet, dug deep to help out the kids from the wrong side of the tracks. The church’s pastor shopped locally and online to find the best deal to get the shoes for the 31 players on the team, and the congregation seems, if this is any indication, to strive to live up to this quote on their website: “For a community to be whole and healthy, it must be based on people’s love and concern for each other.”


Dateline Gainesville FL: The Dove World Outreach Center is planning on going ahead with its self-declared ‘International Burn A Koran (Quran) Day’ on Saturday, the ninth anniversary of the 9/11 attacks. The pastor, Terry Jones, was pressed to admit in an interview with Chris Matthews that he respects George W Bush but even Dubya would not be able to dissuade the pastor from burning the some 200 Korans that have been sent to his church since his intentions were announced several weeks ago. The pastor believes his church, with a congregation of about 50, has to send a strong as a warning for everyone “before it’s too late for America” just like it’s “too late for Europe.”