Sunday School 9/22/19

None of the Democratic presidential contenders are in the classrooms today - they must be recovering from the Iowa Steak Fry, or the Des Moines Register poll (more on that during the week), or maybe they're just too busy raising money or something.


So, who do we listen to? Secretary of State Mike Pompeo (three classrooms), Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin (two classrooms or Rep. Adam Schiff, the chair of the House Intelligence Committee (one classroom)?  

I chose Schiff, who appeared on CNN's State of the Union with Jake Tapper. Here are the highlights.

Tapper played a video clip in which the president said he wasn't looking to hurt Joe Biden but "he said a very bad thing. He said a very foolish thing. Now me, on the other hand, my call with the president, the new president of Ukraine, was perfect...There was no quid pro quo..." and Tapper asked Schiff to respond.

Well, if that was the case, then why doesn't the president simply release the transcript of that call? And I don't know whether the whistleblower complaint is on this allegation, but if it is - and even if it isn't - why doesn't the president just say, release the whistleblower complaint? 

Clearly, he's afraid for the public to see either one of those things. And we're determined to make sure that the public does, that the nation is protected, that if the president of the United States is browbeating a foreign leader at the same time he was withholding vital military assistance that Ukraine needed to defend itself against Russia, and trying to get dirt on his political opponent in yet a second campaign, then the country needs to know about it. And we need to take defensive steps. 

And Schiff disagreed with Mnuchin, who was also in Tapper's classroom this morning, who said that foreign leaders need to know their conversations with the president will not be shared. Schiff disagreed, if the conversations contained potential corruption or were being used for political purposes. And, he went on,

that's what's at stake here. This would be, I think the most profound violation of the presidential oath of office, certainly during this presidency, which says a lot, but perhaps during just about any presidency. There is no privilege that covers corruption... And again, I don't know if this is the subject of the whistleblower complaint. But if it is, it needs to be exposed. 

He was careful, twice, to point out that we don't know for sure what's in the whistleblower complaint, even though Tapper suggested that it was about conversation with Ukraine's president. But he did say what we do know: that it wasn't a policy disagreement, and that it was urgent.

(a policy issue) is not a valid whistleblower complaint. But, here, the inspector general said, this is not what is at issue. We're talking about serious or flagrant abuse, impropriety, potential violation of law. And there's no privilege that protects that.

Further, if this is what the complaint is about, you've got the "illicit conduct" by the president and "the added element of a coverup."

Tapper asked if, as the Wall Street Journal reported, Trump pressed eight times to have Hunter and Joe Biden investigated, whether Schiff would consider that an impeachable offense.  Schiff reminded Tapper that he's been "very reluctant" to go down that path (as have been many Dems in leadership roles), as it's "an extraordinary remedy," and one of last resort. That said, 

But if the president is essentially withholding military aid, at the same time that he is trying to browbeat a foreign leader into doing something illicit, that is, providing dirt on his opponent during a presidential campaign, that that may be the only remedy that is co-equal to the evil that that conduct represents.

Joseph Maguire, the acting Director of National Intelligence, will be testifying before the House Intelligence committee on Thursday to explain why he's withholding the whistleblower complaint, Schiff said. 

And we're going to make sure that we find out whether the president has engaged in this kind of improper conduct. But it may be that we do need to move forward with that extraordinary remedy if.. the president is, at the same time withholding vital military assistance he is trying to leverage that to obtain impermissible help in his political campaign.

Tapper allowed as how that's the farthest he's ever heard Schiff go on the topic of impeachment -but he also pointed out that other Dems are willing to go even further, referencing comments by 2020 presidential candidate Elizabeth Warren and freshman Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez  as examples, and asked for Schiff's response.

Well, I would just say this. There's no chance of us persuading the Senate, the Senate Republicans, in an impeachment trial. They have shown their willingness to carry the president's baggage, no matter how soiled its contents. 

But I want to make sure, before we go down this road, that we can persuade the public that this was the right thing to do.... Now, some of the folks that you mentioned have been embracing impeachment from the very beginning. I don't think that's useful in making the case to the public that we did this reluctantly. 

But the president is pushing us down this road..I have spoken with a number of my colleagues over the last week, and this seems different in kind. And we may very well have crossed the Rubicon here.

They also talked about the Ukrainian foreign minister saying there was no pressure to investigate Biden in the July phone call. Schiff noted that the country is in a tough spot, wanting a summit with Trump, having issues with Russia occupying their country, and also understanding that, even though the $250M in military aid that was being held up (which was a subject before Schiff's committee already), it could be cut off just as quickly as it was released. In a nutshell, he was basically saying they're between a rock and a hard place, a position that Schiff doesn't envy, especially given Trump's vindictive tendencies.

He also said that they'll do everything possible - including potentially withholding funds from the DNI - if they don't get the whistleblower complaint. When asked by Tapper if that wasn't going to put our country at risk, Schiff said it depended on what funds are withheld, noting that some funds that don't go directly to national security could be held back. Further, he said,

Now, we cannot afford to play rope-a-dope in the court for weeks or months on end. We need an answer. If there's a fire burning, it needs to be put out. And that's why we're going to have to look at every remedy.

And if these two issues are, in fact, one issue, and relates to deplorable conduct, a violation of the president's oath of office, and a cover-up in terms of this whistleblower complaint, then we're going to have to consider impeachment, as well, a remedy here.

The interview with Schiff ended there, but this conversation -- about Trump and Ukraine and the whistleblower and the DNI and impeachment - yeah, that's going to keep going on, and on, and on...

See you around campus.