His first guest was Dr. Ashish Jha, the White House Covid-19 Response Coordinator. After talking about President Biden's health and treatment, and White House protocols (yes, they follow CDC guidelines, Jha said), Karl got down to the important stuff: why aren't they hearing from Dr. O'Connor, Biden's physician? Jha explained that they are hearing from O'Connor, and Fauci, and Jha and Biden himself, but Karl's complaint was
we're not able to ask him questions. We don't -- we see a written statement, we're not actually able to question the president's doctor.
I'd be willing to bet a dollar that Karl and the rest of the media really want to know what Biden's health is going to be in 2024, not what his health is now. And, I'd bet a second dollar they're wishing that Dr. O'Connor was more like Dr. Ronny Jackson, who recently declared former president Trump "is in the pink of health," and who said previously that if Trump had only eaten healthier, "he might live to be 200 years old."
Next up was Rep. Adam Kinzinger (R-Not Pulling Any Punches), who talked about the January 6th investigation. Here are some highlights.
Of his House Republican colleagues, he said he's "ceased to be amazed at how much they're willing to accept" and not push back on. He also said the hearings might not be having "a ton of impact" on regular Rs, and that "Trumpism isn't dying even though Trump is becoming irrelevant," but that in the long term
in like five years I still believe that it's going to be hard to find somebody that will admit they were ever a Trump supporter. And I think that's where this impact comes in, as future history.
Karl mentioned the "quite emphatic" AG Merrick Garland saying that no one is above the law, and asked Kinzinger if he thinks "it is more likely now that we'll actually see something, again, we've never seen in American history, a former president, maybe a president candidate again, under -- being prosecuted by the Justice Department?"
Kinzinger said it does, and he was clear to say they've got "no special indication" of anything the DOJ is doing, but said "it does feel like" there's been a lot of movement on things on the DOJ side since the Committee hearings started. He said he's "not going to complain," saying
we never want to get in a position as a country, what you see in failed democracies, where every last administration is prosecuted. But there is a massive difference between 'I'm going to prosecute the last administration for political vengeance' and not prosecuting an administration that literally attempted a failed coup. That is a -- that is a precedent I'm way more concerned about, is, if there is evidence that this happened from a judicial perspective, if there's the ability to move forward on prosecuting, and you don't, you have basically set the floor for future behavior of any president. And I don't think a democracy can survive that. So, I certainly hope they’re moving forward. I certainly think there’s evidence of crimes. And I think it goes all the way up to Donald Trump.
Karl's response?
So, you -- you hope that there will be a prosecution of Trump himself. Even -- I mean, this is -- I mean, you just have to take a step back here. This is a guy who is sounding like he’s going to run again, so he would be being prosecuted by the president that he is potentially running against.
Kinzinger was clear when he answered
Look, I worry about everything that has happened for the last few years. And really, I worry about everything that could happen in the future, and that includes things like, you know, what happens if a president’s running for office and he’s indicted, how does that feel? But, the converse of that is, what happens if we don’t do anything? What happens if we look and say, well, he’s running again, we’re concerned how it’s going to look, so that, like, whole coup attempt thing, let’s just up that behind us and hope it never happens again? Because it will happen again.
And then there's Kevin McCarthy. Karl said "McCarthy clearly didn't believe this stuff" - Trump's Big Lie - and he wondered if things would have been different if McCarthy had stood up and said so. Kinzinger's answer was spot on. Here's how he started out.
But the question is, what are you going to stand for in your life, you know? Are you going to go out being known as the guy that enabled a failed coup, or are you going to be the guy that goes out standing up, right? Goes out saying, I'm going to do what’s right?
He said McCarthy "very likely could have survived this" - but he made the wrong choice. After January 6th, Kinzinger said, Republicans were stuck in a "what do we do? Where do we go from here?" situation. And then, McCarthy went to Florida, and single-handedly resurrected Trump, "like an ambulance driver that took those paddles and brought Donald Trump back to life." At that time, "the fear that went through the Republican ranks" was palpable.
And he had a message for everyone.
... ladies and gentlemen, and particularly my Republican friends, your leaders by and large have been lying to you. They know stuff that’s very different than what they’re telling you. They know the election wasn’t stolen, but they’re going to send out fundraising requests, they’re going to take your money from you and they’re going to use you to stay in power. You’re being abused. You can be mad at Liz Cheney and I. That’s fine. We’ve been taking this for a while. We’re not the ones lying to you. It’s the people you think are telling you what you want to hear. They’re the liars. And Kevin McCarthy is among them.
Two final points. First, the "door is wide open" for Secret Service folks - Trump's driver and head of detail among them - to come and testify; it's not the Committee's decision that they haven't done so yet. He said anonymous sources - "some of which may actually be the people of interest themselves" who are unwilling to testify under oath don't take away from Cassidy Hutchinson's testimony.
Cassidy Hutchinson will go down in history as a hero, and she never sought to. She’s just a young woman telling the truth with more courage than the vast majority of men in politics today.
He also said there's more information that we haven't heard yet from the Secret Service, and they can "explore more in depth all of that" in their report, future hearings, or both.
And, about Steve Bannon being found guilty?
It’s good. I mean justice, right... come in. you can plead the Fifth if you want in front of our committee, but you can’t ignore a congressional subpoena, or you’ll pay the price. That’s to any future witnesses too.
I figure there are a few people who will do that voluntarily, without waiting for a subpoena.
See you around campus.
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