Sunday School 11/13/22

Here's your Sunday School classroom review for this week, starting with excerpts from interviews Dana Bash had with Gov. Gretchen Whitmer (D-MI) and Gov-Elect Josh Shapiro (D-PA) on CNN's State of the Union.

Bash asked Whitmer if there were any national takeaways from her convincing, more-than-10-point victory. Focusing on the fundamentals was key, she said, "whether it's fixing the damn roads, or making sure our kids are getting back on track after an incredible disruption in their learning, or just simply solving problems and being honest with the people."

A governor can't fix global inflation, but what we can do is take actions to keep more money in people's pockets, protect our right to make our own decisions about our bodies. And all of this was squarely front and center for a lot of Michigan voters. And I suspect that's probably true for voters across the country.

On whether "this election was in any way a repudiation of political violence," Whitmer said she'd like to think so. 

Whether it is aimed at me or... a Republican congressman like Fred Upton or Peter Meijer here in Michigan, it's unacceptable. And my heart goes out to the Pelosi family. I think that this is a moment where good people need to call this out and say we will not tolerate this in this country. And perhaps part of that message was sent this election.

Finally, on how to keep Michigan 'blue' going forward, Whitmer said it was the agenda the Ds have been putting forward. Even with a "very challenging legislature," she said, it's all about the fundamentals. She's proud to be a Dem, and added 

I will work with anybody who actually wants to roll up their sleeves and solve problems... There's a seat at the table for anyone who's serious about solving problems and building the Michigan that ensures generations can thrive.

Shifting to Shapiro and how he did so much better than President Biden did two years ago, he said they went everywhere and talked to everyone, "no matter their party label." They

reached out to constituencies that, quite frankly, had been ignored for some time, from Latino voters to Gen Z. And we built a coalition around getting stuff done for people, focusing on the things that mattered most.

His message to other Dems, who, Bash said, "are increasingly a coastal party and have had trouble with particularly the rural voters and working-class voters, who used to be the core of the Democratic Party," on how to be more competitive?

I think it's just a matter of showing up, treating people with respect, and showing them how you're going to make their lives better, helping them understand how you can actually build a bridge between the parties to kind of take down the temperature and get real things done.

In the MTP classroom, What's-his-name talked with Sens. Bill Cassidy (R-LA) and Elizabeth Warren (D-MA). 

Asked what he learned from the election, Cassidy said it was that

the American people want a way forward that actually focuses on ideas, ideas that will make their lives better, not just their lives but that for future generations. Those who are most closely aligned with the former president under-performed. Those who are talking about the future or who had managed their states well, they over-performed. The American people want ideas. They want a future.

He said he wasn't blaming Donald Trump for the Rs losing the Senate, he said he was "looking at it empirically." And, the Rs

need to have a debate about ideas. In that debate, we need to explain to the American people exactly where we think our country should go. And by the way, since I think using market forces to make the individuals' lives more free, more prosperous, is the way to go, I think we win that debate.

Warren said she learned "when Democrats deliver, Democrats win."

We fought for working people. That's the heart and soul of the Democratic party. And the voters said, "Yeah, that's what we want." The Republicans, by contrast, they were there for the billionaires and the billionaire corporations. They were extremists. They wanted to fight about conspiracy theories and the 2020 election. And voters said, "No, we need somebody on our side." So, Democrats fought, Democrats delivered, Democrats won. And that should inform what we do during the lame duck and what we do in 2023 and 2024.

And, asked whether she has "a concern that Democrats can't win if they're running against, say, normal Republicans, kind of like Chris Sununu or Mike DeWine" (governors of NH and OH, respectively), she said she doesn't have that concern. The Dems won, and President Biden won, she said, because they did the work, and because they "went big" on vaccines and testing, helping the unemployed, caps insulin and drug costs, getting corporations to pay taxes, and more. 

Every one of those things is popular. The Republicans, every single one of them voted against every provision I just described. The president's leadership put us in a position, every candidate, up and down the ballot, to talk about what Democrats fight for and what we deliver on. And by doing that, we were able to address the values and the economic security of people across this country. And it sure paid off. It paid off at historic levels.

Finally, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi talked with George Stephanopoulos in ABC's This Week classroom. 

Responding to his question on how the Dems did so well in the midterms, she said they didn't accept the pundits saying they couldn't win "because history, history, history." 

I’m very proud of our candidates, both our incumbents as well as our red to blue candidates... they had courage, they had purpose, and they understood their district. They also rejected calls from Washington about, oh, your message should change. No, our message was clear -- people over politics, lower cost, bigger paychecks, safer communities. And they knew the value of a woman's right to choose, they knew how important it was to protect our democracy, they knew the contrast between themselves and their opponents and that is what made them win... I hope that's a lesson, because really it depresses the vote sometimes when people say “it's all over” 18 months before the election. We never accepted that.

Asked about the steps Dems need to take to bring Congress - and the country - together, which she's talked about since the election, she said they've

always been taking that step because we honor our oath to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States, and that should be a unifying principle for us. The -- when many of our bills, we worked very hard to make it bipartisan, bipartisan, bipartisan. And while the bills were bipartisan, the votes were not. So again, I go back to Abraham Lincoln. Public sentiment is everything. With it, you can accomplish almost anything. Without it, practically nothing. And the point I want to make is, when the public knows what is at stake and what's happening there, I think we'll see more cooperation, again, working together to produce a bill, but not having people vote no, take the dough, and make it look like we don't have bipartisanship, when, in fact, in the bills we do, but in the votes, not necessarily. Let the public know.

Chew on that last answer, and I'll see you around campus.

Sunday School 9/5/21

Today's Sunday School focuses solely on the Texas abortion law. We'll start in the State of the Union classroom, where host Dana Bash talked with Sen. Amy Klobuchar (D-Hot Dish).

Bash wondered if the SCOTUS "is about to overturn" the decision. Klobuchar said she hoped not, but said the decision to let the law stand (for now, anyway) was "unbelievable." In the past, she said,

when they had cases that were so blatantly against Roe v Wade, they would stay those cases when such requests came up. They did it with another Texas law. They did it in 2015. They did it in 2019. And so here you have them, this year, this week, basically telling women in Texas that 85% of them seeking abortion services cannot exercise their constitutional rights... They did at midnight with just less than 72 hours of debate, in Justice Kagan's words, and basically green-lighted a law that is blatantly against Roe v Wade.

Klobuchar believes that a Congressional solution is an answer, and she's glad that the House is going to codify Roe. In the Senate, they can't get to 60 votes, though. So, the senator said,

I believe we should abolish the filibuster. I do not believe an archaic rule should be used to allow us... to use Justice Sotomayor's words, to put our heads in the sand, and not take action on the important issues, the challenges that are facing our country right now.... We just will get nowhere if we keep this filibuster in place.

Klobuchar s in favor of requiring a standing filibuster, so the Rs must at least work to fight things that are unpopular with most Americans. She's also in favor of carveouts for constitutional issues (e.g., abortion and voting). And, 

I think, "what is the best way to get to a result that's the right policy, that's consistent with where the American people are, that will not wreak havoc in this country?" And, to me, the best thing is to get rid of the filibuster. But (expanding the Court) is an option, and President Biden has a commission in place right now that is considering it.

Finally, on the potential retirement of Justice Stephen Breyer, Bash wondered where Klobuchar stood.

I believe, if he is seriously considering retirement -- and he has said he would do it based on not only his own health, but also the future of the court -- if this decision doesn't cry out for that, I don't know what does. 

In the Face the Nation classroom, guest host Weijia Jiang spoke with Rep. Veronica Escobar (D-TX), about the shenanigans. Jiang wondered what the Congresswoman heard from constituents; "shocked, horrified, outraged" were three words she used. She pointed to the two "very awful" consequences of the law: incentivizing "bounty hunters," noting it was "incredible that we live in a state that is willing to incentivize that." The other "real-life" and "deadly consequences" are worse.

...what this law and other laws like it will do is simply make it deadlier, more dangerous. Women are going to take their health into their own hands. It will impact young women, poor women, and women of color. And I am really afraid of the lives that will be lost as a result.

Jiang asked about the outsourcing of enforcement to private citizens. Escobar said she doesn't think we really understand the consequences, and gave an example.

If, for example, I had a young daughter who was the victim of a sexual assault, and I was taking my young daughter to a clinic. Her assault-- the person who perpetrated the assault could take me to court incentivized by that $10,000. And let's say that my young daughter was not pregnant. There was no abortion involved. But I still had to defend myself in court. I can't even recover legal fees. There are layers upon layers upon layers of injustices written into this law, intended to really send the most severe chilling effect on women and women's reproductive rights in the state of Texas.

As to Jiang's question on how she can find common ground with the 41% of Texans who oppose abortion rights. She said it's "very hard to find common ground."  We need to "do more for young women and men" - sex education, access to contraceptives, legal protections for women and the like.

Instead, what we are seeing is an elimination of those things... It's a very backward way of addressing what is a concern. But that's why I say there's no law that you can create that will eliminate abortion. All that's happening is you're eliminating safe, legal abortion, causing women significant harm.

Down the hall, George Stephanopoulos talked with Sen. Bill Cassidy (R-Not a Fan of Planned Parenthood) in the This Week classroom. Cassidy said he's pro-life, and he made a point that the others did not about the SCOTUS ruling

It had nothing to do with the constitutionality of Roe v. Wade. It was only on if the plaintiffs had standing. People are using it to gin up their base to distract from the disastrous policies in Afghanistan, and maybe for fundraising appeals. I wish we would focus on issues as opposed to -- as opposed to theater. It was about if they had standing, nothing to do with constitutionality. I think we should move on to other issues.

George wanted to stay on topic, particularly the part about how the law "actually tasks private citizens with enforcing this law,", which "conservatives should hate," according to the Wall Street Journal. He asked Cassidy what he thought about that.

I think the Supreme Court will swat it away once it comes to them in an appropriate manner. If it is as terrible as people say it is, it will be destroyed by the Supreme Court. But to act like this is an assault upon Roe v. Wade is, again, something the president is doing I think to distract from his other issues. And it is clearly not an assault upon the -- by the way, I'm pro-life. But just to say, the facts are this is about standing, about nothing else. And the Supreme Court will decide how to affect standing before all these other things play out.

And George then asked, "you don't think it signals the Court is prepared to undo Roe v. Wade now?" 

You know, so, we can always talk about eventualities. We can always talk theoreticals. It makes good fodder. But I’m kind of a guy who’s in the middle of a state in which 700,000 people don't have electricity, in which we’ve got a disastrous withdrawal from Afghanistan, and the administration is pushing a $3.5 trillion bill which will be to inflation what the withdrawal was to Afghanistan. Now, if you -- you know, in my mind, I don’t think about theoreticals. I think about those things that are before me and that’s what I focused on.

I'm going to give the last word on this to former Sen. Heidi Heitkamp (D-ND) who was on the panel today.

But what this has done is ignited a political debate for the first time because for generations after generations, since Roe v. Wade, women have accepted that this is settled law. For the first time we've seen an earthquake among the activists, among people who were concerned about reproductive rights saying this could happen. Now all of a sudden we are at a spot where this could happen. And I think the reason why you saw Senator Cassidy duck this issue it's politically very dangerous for the Republican Party to have to explain to a suburban mother why her daughter who was raped, you know, three months ago no longer has a choice. And so I think that politically the reason why you don't see the Republicans talking about this as a major pro-life victory is because politically it's extraordinarily dangerous and it has dominated the discussion in a week that should have been pretty good for the Republicans.

I hope that's not too theoretical for Cassidy and the rest of the GOP.

See you around campus.

Sunday School 8/8/21

Let's begin this week's Sunday School with Dana Bash in the CNN State of the Union classroom, where she talked with Senators Bill Cassidy (R-LA) and Dick Durbin (D-IL). Here are some highlights, starting with Cassidy, who's also a doctor. 

He was clear that there are ways to get out of the COVID mess his state, and others are in: get vaccinated or wear a mask.

If you have a large percentage of your population which is not vaccinated, and your infection rate is going up, you have got one or two choices. If you're inside, either you're vaccinated or you have to wear a mask. Otherwise, you're at too great a risk to further spread infection, to further pack those emergency rooms, to further prevent people who have terrible accidents from getting cared for because the hospital is full of COVID. And there is a choice. On the other hand, if we don't want mask mandates, get vaccinated, the infection rate goes down, and you don't have a mandate.

And, he says, it's a "conservative principle" to have local officials making decisions on thinks like mask mandates for schools - so he's not a fan of what Gov. Ron DeSantis is doing in Florida.

On the infrastructure bill, on which he's been a key negotiator for the Rs, he said 50% of it will be scored as 'paid for' by the Congressional Budget Office, and the other half will have a lot of paid for items, given they're taking already appropriated COVID package monies that haven't been used and applying them to the infrastructure bill. And, he said, the Rs have some 'splaining to do if they're complaining about the pay-for or deficit aspects now, when they didn't before.

I will point out that president Trump proposed a $1.5 trillion package, which most Republicans were all for, and only 5 percent of it was paid for. We have $550 billion of new spending, of which we can reasonably say is paid for, but certainly one-half by CBO score. And now folks are saying, oh, can't vote for that... OK, well, that's OK. But, on the other hand, we're creating jobs. We're creating bridges. We're protecting people from flooding. Hopefully, they change their mind.

 And he suggested that with the Problem Solvers Caucus on board, they should have a path for getting the traditional infrastructure bill done in the House without having it held hostage for the gigunda human infrastructure bill that the progressives want. Speaker Pelosi, he said,

doesn't need a radical left wing. She can pass the infrastructure package with just that committed group of American congressmen and women who want to see our country get better, to have the $110 billion for the roads and bridges and highways, etc., and the new jobs. They can pass the infrastructure package without having the radical left. And that, I think, opens a pathway. 

Let's hope that's what happens when the House gets back to work.

Next up was Durbin, who chairs the Senate Judiciary Committee. He talked mostly about the DOJ and the attempt by Former Guy to have the DOJ interfere in the 2020 election. Durbin noted that

...what was going on in the Department of Justice was frightening, from a constitutional point of view, to think that Bill Barr left, resigned after he had announced he didn't see irregularities in the election, and then his replacement was under extraordinary pressure from the president the United States, even to the point where they were talking about replacing him. 

He didn't provide any juicy details, but he did say that president Trump asked Jeffrey Rosen, the acting Attorney General after Bill Barr resigned, "to do certain things related to states' election returns, which he refused to do," regarding the 2020 election. Rosen was being asked "by the White House, the leadership in the White House, to meet with certain people who had these wild, bizarre theories of why that election wasn't valid, and he refused to do it." History will be kind to Rosen, Durbin said - and that was not what he would have thought when Rosen was appointed. 

We'll close with his reflection on what they've learned so far in the investigation; emphasis on the last sentence is mine, for the people in the back of the room. 

I guess the thought that we have come to accept that this president and his bizarre conduct, we came to accept over four years as normal. It's outrageous. When you look back on the Richard Nixon episode and the Saturday Night Massacre, people out of principle were turning around and threatening to resign. The same thing happened here, incidentally, within the Department of Justice. There was a point where virtually everyone in the authority in the Department of Justice was going to walk if the president had his way. I mean, these are moments in history which you would never want to see repeated. And, with Donald Trump, they were.

Sen. Rick Scott (R-FL) was in the Fox News Sunday classroom with Brett Bair sitting in for Chris Wallace. He's not a fan of the infrastructure bill, because it's not paid for, and "we've got to start doing things responsibly." He likes road, bridges, airports, and seaports - stuff he did when he was Florida's governor, but "less than half this bill... had anything to do with roads, bridges, airports, and seaports."

Even though his state has a 'C' on its infrastructure scorecard, according to the American Society of Civil Engineers, he's not interested in adding to the debt by borrowing money to pay for it. Even though, of course, that wasn't the case when that other guy was president, Bair pointed out. 

In fact, if you look at the numbers, the debt went up at the end of fiscal 2020, $26.9 trillion. The Trump administration and Republicans added $6.7trillion to the debt. That was since President Obama's last budget, a 33 percent increase. Understanding COVID had a big role in that, but there's not a great track record for Republicans recently to tout themselves as deficit debt hawks and now to be doing it here.

That's different now, Scott said. The Rs

had a caucus meeting where we said, we're not going to raise the debt ceiling without -- all Republican senators said, we will not raise the debt ceiling without structural change. That's what we all agreed to do.

On COVID, in a nutshell, everyone should be able to make up their own minds, to make good decisions, if the government would just tell them what they need to know. 

Here's what I believe we ought to do at every level of government. Let's be honest. If you feel comfortable, get the vaccine. If you don't, figure out how you're going to keep yourself safe. I mean that's what I believe we ought to be doing. And I'm going to -- I'm going to do everything I can to tell people, you know, that, you know, I've -- I've been comfortable with the vaccine. I had COVID. I don't want anybody to get COVID.

He also said

This is -- you know, this is not a country where we need people telling us what to do. I love my mom. I hate her telling me what to do. Give me good information. I'll make a good decision.

We'll make "good decisions," he said? Yeah, maybe, maybe not: around 400,000 people at Lollapalooza, with widespread reporting of vaccine and negative COVID test documentation being ignored by security, and requests from public health officials urging attendees to get tested... 400 at Barack Obama's birthday part... 700,000 expected at Sturgis... 

Finally, in response to Baier's last question on whether Former Guy is the leader of the GOP, Scott thinks not.

I was able to win because I went and I told people what I thought they -- I -- they wanted somebody to do. That's who's going to win. The -- in the next election, the '22 election, the '24 election is, who's got the right message and right background for that time. And that's who's going to be -- that's -- but the voters are the leader of the party. 

That's an interesting concept, isn't it?

See you around campus. Make good decisions. Get vaccinated if you're able, and wear a mask when it makes sense to do so.

Sunday School 2/28/21

Seven senators made classroom visits today; with the House passing the stimulus package, and Dem plans to use reconciliation to get the minimum wage through the Senate being shot down, attention will turn to them, so that's where I'm focusing, too. 

Here are highlights of a few of them, starting with Sens. Rob Portman (R-OH) and Mazie Hirono (D-HI), who spoke with George on This Week. Hirono was first.

• She's supportive of anything that will work to get the minimum wage increased, noting that it's mostly essential workers who are earning the $7.25 hourly wage, which she called "poverty level."
• The appropriate response to sexual harassment allegations against my Sonofa Gov is to listen to the people who come forward, "and then to do the appropriate investigation and corroboration of the allegations." The NY AG "would be the independent entity to conduct such an investigation."
• The Biden administration is showing leadership on anti-Asian hate crimes, having issued an executive memorandum requiring the new AG "to work with state and county officials and community groups to prevent and prosecute these kind of hate crimes."

Next? Sen. Portman, who voted to pass the Trump tax cuts and repeal Obamacare via reconciliation, but says trying to do COVID relief that way "would poison the well of bipartisanship." 

• He thinks what Biden should do is "...to start off with more bipartisan measures, so that we don’t poison the well, so that we can continue to work together. And in this case, it would be very easy to get Republican support for a COVID relief package."
• He poo-pooed the idea that Republican voters are in favor of the bill -"if, you know, checks are coming out to people's homes, that's going to be popular, but that doesn't mean that this is the right bill." He gave a list of things in the bill he says are not related to COVID.
• Working together "is not difficult. We can work together on this one and then continue to work together on infrastructure and retirement security and supply chain issues with China and so on. So my hope is that they'll change their mind before this over." 
• He doesn't think Biden has gone far enough on Saudi sanctions vis a vis MBS and Jamal Khashoggi, "although you have to give him credit" for increasing sanctions and travel bans on the people directly responsible for murdering Khashoggi - but he thinks there needs to be something directly targeting MBS. 
• He says former president Trump is "very popular" with the Rs, but policies are more popular - in fact, "there are a number of things we can talk about from a policy perspective that I think will help to move the party forward. And that's where we ought to focus."

Senator Sherrod Brown (D-OH) was in the Meet the Press classroom; here are highlights.

• Brown's statement about not waiting for Rs to grow spines but having the Dems show Americans they don't have to "settle for a government that's set up to fail" was not defiant, but prescriptive. 
• He always wants to be bipartisan - he's a Dem in conservative Ohio, after all - and says the COVID bill is a bipartisan plan, will broad support, and "Just because Senate Republicans don't support it doesn't make it partisan." 
• He says " -- it's become a Trump party. It's not a party of reason. It's a party that has turned its back." He referenced Sen. Mitch McConnell doing nothing about COVID relief for months, the Rs failing to raise the minimum wage, and more. 
• He says they'll find a way to solve the problem somehow, noting "The corporate elite, the far-right elite in Washington have blocked it year after year after year after year, and we're going to make it happen."'
• We're not done yet on Saudi Arabia, he says, saying "We need to hold any foreign authoritarian, like the royal family, some of the members of the royal family, we need hold them accountable."

Sens. Bill Cassidy (R-LA) and Chris Coons (D-DE) talked with Dana Bash on CNN's State of the Union. Here are excerpts, with Cassidy up first. 

• He said the Rs "have got to win in two years, we have got to win in four years. If we do that, we will do that by speaking to those issues that are important to the American people." That's more than "putting one person on a pedestal and making that one person our focal point."
• He also said that "CPAC is not the entirety of the Republican Party... we lost the House of Representatives, the Senate and the presidency. No president -- that has not happened in a single four years under a president since Herbert Hoover. "In order to win, they have to listen to all voters, not just the Trump fans. "That is a reality that we have to confront."
• He doesn't think Trump will be the nominee in 2024, and whether or not Trump is fit (Cassidy didn't answer), he said, "The point is, I don't think he is going to be our nominee..."
• He has "no clue" how the COVID bill will come out of the Senate, and that the Rs haven't been involved. He "started laughing" listening to press secretary Jen Psaki saying the Rs have been listened to, saying "that is such a joke."
• Bipartisanship isn't dead, though; he's working with Sen. Jacky Rosen (D-NV) on a privacy issue, and, "Republicans remain willing and are working on issues that require bipartisan cooperation. We have done five on a COVID relief package in the past. It could have happened here. They made a conscious decision not to include us."

And, here're excerpts from the interview with Sen. Coons, a close friend of President Biden.

• He hasn't seen the details of Sen. Ron Wyden's Plan B proposal to tax companies that don't pay $15/hour. More importantly, "And if I'm someone who is always willing to negotiate with Republicans, I'm willing to negotiate with Democrats as well." Everyone - Ds and Rs alike - agree the minimum wage is too low, they just need to find a way to agree on a number and a path. 
• As do most Dems, he pointed to polling overwhelming support (76% of all Americans, and 60% of Republicans), so they should listen to the voters. And he's glad to hear Cassidy is still willing to work across the aisle, noting they've done that together in the past.
• He also said ..."Biden and the Democrats in Congress gave several weeks for there to be a serious negotiation that came close to the scope and range of this challenge. The proposals that came forward weren't anything like" what we're up against. "And so, frankly, we're moving ahead with a bill that probably will get no Republican votes in the Senate, but will have broad Republican support in the country."
• He said the Dems shouldn't "throw up the white flag and say, well, there's no way that we can work with Republicans, when this is literally the first major piece of legislation to come through. We will have other chances to pass bold legislation in this Congress, in this year, but we have to give bipartisanship a chance."

Dr. Anthony Fauci made four classroom appearances today (This Week, MTP, FTN and CNN SOTU), so I'm going to leave you on your own for those interviews.

See you around campus. Follow the COVID guidance, please, or I'll have to excuse you from class and assign additional homework. 

Sunday School 1/31/21: Extra Credit

 For your Extra Credit this week, I dropped in on two Republicans. In the Meet the Press classroom, Chuck Todd talked with Rep. Adam Kinzinger (R-IL), and in the Fox News Sunday classroom, Chris Wallace talked with Sen. Bill Cassidy of Louisiana. I'll take them in that order.

Chuck said a couple of other House 'yes' votes on impeaching Trump backed out of the interview. Kinzinger's poison, it seems, especially now that he's launched Country1st.com, a PAC calling itself "a home for principled Americans who are tired of the poisonous extremism that has overtaking our beloved nation's politics." 

He said "it's really difficult" being the face of the anti-Trump GOP; lots of people, including family members, have turned on him. And even though he's been accused - twice - of being possessed by the devil, he's undeterred. 

...let's take a look at the last four years, how far we have come in a bad way. How backwards looking we are, how much we peddle darkness and division. And that's not the party I ever signed up for. And I think most Republicans didn't sign up for that. 

Even given that, he said it's invigorating to stand up for what he believes in. And, the question of whether the GOP can survive without Trump is the right question to ask. He thinks the focus on getting reelected is the wrong approach, and that there's a leadership problem in the party. That includes House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy trotting off to Mar-a-Lago, further tying Trump and the party together, and feeding his desperation to stay relevant. They "they shouldn't be a Trump-first party, they should be a country-first party." 

And we need to quit being the party that even one iota defends an insurrection, a dead police officer and other dead Americans on the Capitol. There is no equivalency to that. And we have to run from that as fast as we can.

Chuck talked about Dems having a hard time engaging with the Rs; he quoted Rep. Dan Kildee of Michigan, who said 

I have a hard time interacting with those members right now. Especially with those I had a closer relationship with. I'm not going to deny the reality that I look at them differently now. They're smaller people to me now.

And, he asked, how can the Rs - "the party that's defending the Marjorie Taylor Greenes of the world" - "lecture" the Dems on bipartisanship? Kinzinger agreed, saying the GOP "has lost its moral authority..." They can fight back, defend their principles, of course, but

when I ask people now what is a conservative principle, how many people think that conservative principles are things like just build the wall and, you know, charge the Capitol and have an insurrection?  

Kinzinger said he'd "certainly vote her off committee" but he's unsure about kicking Marjorie Taylor Greene out of the House; voters have a right to choose who they want to represent them, he said.

On impeachment, he gets that some Senators are looking for an easy way out by using a process argument, that you can't impeach someone who's out of office, but it's not the time for that.

...this is a red line in American history.... ten of us in the House took the tough vote... What we can't say, Chuck, is in the last two months of a president, you can do whatever you want, including incite a mob to insurrection, because it's just too late in the process to convict you.

They need to send a message, "that people like Donald Trump can never hold that office again."