Sunday School 3/31/24: Extra Credit

For your Extra Credit this week, I've opted to highlight a conversation with two religious leaders from Washington, DC: Wilton Cardinal Gregory, the Catholic Archbishop, and the Right Reverand Marianna Budde, the Episcopal Bishop. They spoke with Ed O'Keefe last Thursday, and the interview was shared in the Face the Nation classroom. Here are some excerpts from their conversation.

O'Keefe talked about presidential candidates Donald Trump and Joe Biden, and compared how they 'invoke Christianity."

I know this gets a little tricky. But we have one who is now selling Bibles that also have copies of the Constitution and a Bill of Rights in them. But the other is the second Catholic president, who goes to church every Sunday, who observes the holy days of obligation, and builds his schedule around them, but doesn't talk at all publicly and is uncomfortable speaking about his own faith. Are you comfortable with the role and the level of Christianity in our politics today?

Cardinal Gregory said that faith used to be "the moral voice" that political people would turn to, as the "moral compass." And now?

...I think in some cases it's the political world that's beginning to set or claiming to set the moral voice. We've switched positions. There is a great need, I believe, to place faith in its proper position, which is not necessarily antagonistic to the political arena. But to seize the responsibility of being that guiding principle, that moral light for our people to turn to.

Bishop Budde expressed concern about how the "message of Christianity is being distorted" in the country, calling it a "cause for deep concern," and more.

I feel it's a – it's an abuse of the faith. And I have to be very careful because I'm not perfect in my understanding of what it means, A, to be a perfect Christian, I'm not a perfect Christian and I'm not a perfect American, but I think we are walking on very thin ice now. I would encourage anyone who buys a Bible to read the Bible and in particular to read the teachings of Jesus, and then to set our policies if we're going to call ourselves a Christian nation against the highest aspirations that Jesus calls us to.

The two faith leaders disagreed a bit on what kind of Catholic President Biden is; Cardinal Gregory said "he could say he's very sincere about his faith," but referenced the term "cafeteria Catholic," one who chooses "that which is attractive" while dismissing "that which is challenging." Budde said, "Or, as Thomas Aquinas would say, you allow your conscience to guide you."

O'Keefe wondered if there's "something on the menu he's not ordering," in Cardinal Gregory's view.

Well, I would say there are things, especially in terms of the life issues, there are things that he chooses to ignore or he uses the current situation as a political pawn rather than saying, look, my church believes this.

 Again, Bishop Budde countered with what I think is a more balanced view.

It's also possible to be a practitioner of the faith as a public leader and not require everyone that you lead in your country to be guided by all of the precepts of your faith, right?

O'Keefe said that seems to be what Biden believes, and Budde concurred, saying that's how she interprets it. She also spoke from her experiences worshipping with Biden at Washington's National Cathedral.

I will say the one thing about him that I admire tremendously - there is not a funeral of a state's person or a state person's spouse that he does not attend, stay through the entire service, and speak from the pulpit as in eulogy, and I find that example to be an expression of authentic faith.

When asked, Cardinal Gregory said he "would not put a lot of emphasis" on any sort of "Biden impact on the pews," and he added some not unexpected perspective on the 'cafeteria Catholic' comment.

He does attend church regularly with great, you know, devotion. But he also steps aside some of the hot-button issues or uses the hot-button issues as a political tool, which it's not – it is not the way I think we would want our faith to be used. The issues of life begin at the very beginning and they conclude at natural death. And you can't – you can't pick and choose. You're either one who respects life, and all of its dimensions, or you have to step aside and say, I'm not pro-life, I'm, you know, on one side of the equation I feel that I could support this dimension of life, but in others, I would step aside.

In response, Bishop Budde offered this.

I love the spectrum of life. I think you can be in adherence of the spectrum of life and still respect a woman's right to choose in reproductive health and including when to have an abortion in the early stages of pregnancy. So I'll just say that as a Christian I believe that that's possible and still hold to the full spectrum of life.

I appreciated how the two faith leaders spoke about their positions, but I'm surprised that the bulk of the conversation focused on how President Biden lives his faith, and nothing about president Trump and his faith. I'm not sure whether O'Keefe opted to lead the conversation towards Biden, or if his guests didn't want to talk about it. 

I think it was a disservice not to delve into how the guy who makes money selling Bibles commands so much respect from people who self-identify as 'religious.'  Maybe next time, I guess...

FYI, here's my Easter message from several years ago. Like Bishop Budde, I'm not a perfect American, or a perfect anything else, for that matter, but I appreciate the value in making an effort to be a better person, regardless of whether or not I check a 'religion' box on a form somewhere.

See you around campus.